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Talk:God Ki
Energy sensing Hello! It's been a while. This could open up a can of worms, but I've seen some things on the wiki that I feel need addressing. Namely, the Super Saiyan Rage article (and its section in Future Trunks' article) and the trivia section of the Ultra Instinct transformation article. What I see the wiki state is that Trunks, thanks to his Super Saiyan Rage transformation, can both harness and sense god ki, and that Ultra Instinct does not have god ki. But what explicit proof is there that both of these are true? :In the case of SS Rage Trunks, the article states he can sense Vegetto Blue's god ki and thus also has it. However, when one goes back to view the respective episode, from the official subtitles by Toei, all that is said is: :Is this statement at all a measurement of power (such as "his energy is colossal!")? Even though god ki cannot be sensed by those that do not possess it in some way, it still lets off a lot of tangible pressure, as stated from this quote: :Another instance very similar to the first quote is the peanut gallery's reaction to Vegeta's powered-up variant of Blue: :Again, is this quote at all an actual measurement of power, or are Roshi and Piccolo judging Vegeta's transformation based on the pressure they feel? One can argue it is a measurement of power, but it's stated those who do not have god ki can't sense it. Trunks' quote ("what unbelievable energy") and Piccolo's quote ("this boundless energy is...") are almost identical aside from the usage of adjectives. If it is still reasoned regardless of Piccolo's quote that he and Roshi cannot sense god ki, then it cannot also be reasoned from Trunks' quote that he can sense it given both statements are practically the same. Despite how SS Rage appears, I don't think that there is any explicit confirmation anywhere that Trunks has or can sense god ki, as nothing he says indicates that. Otherwise, Piccolo and Roshi can also sense god ki, which is false. The appearance of aura is also not a good indicator on whether or not a character has god ki, because god ki appears differently for characters, not to mention there are various unique and distinct auras we've seen from characters in DBS that aren't affirmed to have god ki. Then there's the other case I'm going to address: :For Ultra Instinct, despite being explicitly stated to be the "state of gods", the wiki claims it does not have god ki because it can be sensed. I'm guessing that conclusion comes from this peanut gallery quote: :Once again, where in this quote indicates a measurement of power? Not to mention, Roshi says his energy seems calm, which not only isn't a measurement of power, but that Roshi's judging Goku's energy based on what he thinks from observation. If the transformation didn't have god ki, then it wouldn't make sense for it to be referred to as the "state of gods" like SS God is stated to be. For instance, if one is stated to be a god, it's reasonable to assume they have and can sense god ki, thus it's very contradictory to claim that one who has attained the state of a god does not have god ki. God Ki is definitely a weird subject that's been difficult to understand, but as confirmed exactly from Toei's subs in DBS054, while those who don't have god ki cannot sense it nor the whereabouts of the possessor of god ki if they aren't in the vicinity, they can still feel the pressure that god ki exudes. I am not here to force anything, especially since I no longer edit here on a regular basis. It's ultimately up to the editors here and their interpretations on how they want to display information, however, I think this just seems too glaring to ignore, personally. 01:23, January 21, 2018 (UTC) ::Windy has returned. Windy has made an edit. This is surely a sign of the end times! But in all seriousness, welcome back, even for this brief moment. Looking over this whole thing, you make fairly valid points. Toriyama (and by extension, I suppose, Toei) hasn't made god ki easy to follow. Hell, at this point, I don't even think it has any meaning (Tournament of Power, anyone?) I can't put in a huge reply, as I have to rush off to work, but I don't disagree with these points as they're presented.—Mina Țepeș 01:41, January 21, 2018 (UTC) :::Bump. And thank you! 03:39, January 22, 2018 (UTC) :::I won't make a decision without the input of the others. But while I am here, I'd like to make an addendum to my post: while I do not believe Piccolo and the lot can sense godly ki, I would like to note that when Trunks commented on Vegetto's energy, he did specifically say "ki" during his line, I heard that much. And yet, when he remarked on the pressure, he specifically used the English word "pressure" (puresshaa, but you get the point). Muten Roushi also did say "ki", while Piccolo I believe actually said "chikara", so he was remarking on the power rather than the energy, but Crunchyroll... . Now the problem with this is we have two characters specifically remarking on the "ki" of someone in a god form; one of which could possibly sense it due to Super Saiyan Rage bearing all the hallmarks of a god form, while Roushi is obviously out. But, due to the way it is presente, without confirmation, we will have to assume Trunks cannot sense it, because if HE can, then Roushi can, and that's just not happening.—Mina Țepeș 05:43, January 22, 2018 (UTC) :::Or maybe, just like with normal ki.. they had to train to sense god ki. Remember Ki sensing was something even Vegeta had to learn on Namek. God Ki is only easy to sense by those who have God Ki, as we know.. but nowhere was it ever stated those who do not possess it could not train to be able to sense it right? QuakingStar (talk) 06:00, January 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::@Aha, I understand. @QuakingStar, except, there is no proof that those who do not possess it could train to be able to sense it either (that would obviously have been mentioned), so that argument doesn't work. 06:22, January 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::Like Windy says, there's no indication that developing one's ability to sense ki can allow them to sense godly ki. It's a nice theory, but it's only conjecture, meaning we cannot actually make use of it here.—Mina Țepeș 18:15, January 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::^. Also pointing this out, since I don't think I was clear: :::: Muten Roushi also did say "ki", while Piccolo I believe actually said "chikara", so he was remarking on the power rather than the energy, but Crunchyroll... . ::::The subtitles you see on Crunchyroll and Funimation for their DBS simulcasts are officially from Toei themselves. 23:33, January 22, 2018 (UTC) ::LOL doesn't change what I heard.—Mina Țepeș 00:45, January 23, 2018 (UTC) :::Ah, I still wasn't clear: that wasn't what I was referring to either ^_^. I just meant Toei does the subs, not Crunchyroll ^_^ I appreciate the input here, but is anyone else going to chime in? 00:58, January 23, 2018 (UTC) ::::Bump? 00:50, January 24, 2018 (UTC) :Dende felt the same pressure from Beerus on the seventh episode if i'm not mistaken. -- 19:08, January 24, 2018 (UTC) ::Yes, and Vegeta and Trunks also felt that pressure in episodes 22 and 54 respectively. Though Dende's been a weird case to me considering he became God just like that. 20:19, January 24, 2018 (UTC) ::::Did Dende feel the pressure or sense the energy? Dende's a weird case, as he is a "god", but not a "god" in the sense of the Kaiōshin and the Hakaishin. The Dende moment annoyed me as a whole, but it will have to be taken into account regardless.—Mina Țepeș 00:37, January 25, 2018 (UTC) :::::I mean, one could argue he sensed it based on his reaction. He's a god. But you're right, he's no Kaioshin, Hakaishin or Angel for that matter. Pressure from god ki is still felt whether or not one can sense it, as seen with Vegeta and Trunks. 02:59, January 25, 2018 (UTC) :::::Do we move on with the proposal? 03:28, January 26, 2018 (UTC) ::::::You have my blessing to do whatever is needed for this article. Your claims have checked out, and indeed raise interesting points on this subject. I'm in full agreement. -- 02:57, January 27, 2018 (UTC) :::::::Alright, thanks! 18:59, January 27, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::Not that it matters now, but i'm in agreement with Windy on the subject. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 20:42, January 27, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::::Then it all checks out.—Mina Țepeș 20:44, January 27, 2018 (UTC) Translation Ok. I'm just going to say it. I really hate the way this article's title was translated. Same with ki. # "Godly" is not an accurate translation. There is no "godly" ki, "godly" energy, "godly" forms, or "godly" life force. It's just "god." God ki, god form, god etc. # Ki literally means "breath." Back in the old days, people thought one's life was literally in their breath (hence the phrase "breath of life"), hence the reasoning behind that. But there is no reason to literally translate that. Ki works just fine. As a result of these two issues, I am changing the name again back to a more proper translation. If that really chaps people's butts, I'll make an amendment to the translation policy to reflect this. [[User:GokūBlack10|'The Dark Messiah']] (Talk) 01:21, October 30, 2018 (UTC) : Beyond the fact that this messes with about a month and a half of my category adjustments, by my Goddess in her Basilicom, thank you. While I do listen to people in charge of translation, translating "ki" literally was beginning to tax me. I have to revert everything I finished, granted, but I much prefer it to "Life", "Breath", etc.—Mina Țepeș 02:55, October 30, 2018 (UTC)